Inverted '1921' Stamps

Albert

How many of us have a CTO set of 195-208, 0127-0140 with the inverted '1921' overprint ? Only asking about the CTO ones. 

Travis

I am missing two stamps (10c and 30c) from having a complete CTO set of 195-208.  I have a complete CTO set of O127-40.  I have been trying to put together a non-CTO sets but it is proving to be a little difficult.

Travis

mikwizzy

I also have a set of the 195-208 with what look to be CTO 

Albert

mikwizzy

Are you saying the whole set has the inverted '1921' ? What about #201 the 20c cent one ? Is that one inverted or upright ? If you can send a scan on that one. Thanks…Albert

Travis

Since 201 is normally found with the date inverted, the stamp with the date NOT inverted is considered the invert.  I am sure Manfred has both regular and officials inverted pictured on this site.  If not, I have them on my site.

Manfred

Because no catalog mentions this I would like to add that the overprint on three of the four stamps in portrait format normally reads upwards, while for the 5c official (Scott O130) downward is normal.

Manfred

It isn't very likely that the whole sets exist both mint and CTO. But, who knows ... ? Perhaps together we can find out what inverts do exist in which condition?

I will go ahead and list what I have below. If anyone has to add something, I would ask him to copy this list and paste it supplemented with his additions.
I repeat: inverts are stamps that have inverted overprints with respect to the prevalent variety! For most stamps that means the "1921" is upside-down or reading downwards; exceptions are Scott #201 (20c regular) and Scott O130 (5c official).

So, here is my list of inverts:
regular mint:
5c, 15c, 20c,
regular CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 15c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5
official mint:
20c, $5
official CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 10c, 15c, 20c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5

Travis

I have added my mint 1c, 2c, and 3c inverts of the regular issue to the list...

regular mint:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 15c, 20c, 
regular CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 15c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5
official mint:
20c, $5
official CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 10c, 15c, 20c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5

Travis

Just received a mint block of four of O134 so updating the list.

regular mint:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 15c, 20c, 
regular CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 15c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5
official mint:
20c, 25c, $5
official CTO:
1c, 2c, 3c, 5c, 10c, 15c, 20c, 25c, 30c, 50c, 75c, $1, $2, $5

Alan

I looked, and at this point, I have nothing to add to the list.

seredag

Following is a list of all UNUSED inverted 1921 overprints on #195-208 and #O127-140 whose existence I can confirm. Rater than catalog numbers, I have used the stamps face value for easy identification. The lists are made up of those listed by Manfred and Travis in this blog, added to those in my collection. As well, I have been tracking eBay sales for over a decade, and can confirm with photos the existence of a few more, leaving the following summary of available unused inverted 1921 stamps:

Regular Issue

1 cent*, 2 cent, 3 cent, 5 cent*, 15 cent*, 20 cent*, 25 cent*, 75 cent, 1 dollar*, 2 dollar, 5 dollar

Thus, only the 10 cent and 50 cent are unaccounted for.

Official Issue

1 cent*, 3 cent, 10 cent, 15 cent, 20 cent, 25 cent, 75 cent, 2 dollar*, 5 dollar*

Therefore, the 2 cent, 5 cent, 30 cent, 50 cent, and 1 dollar are unknown at this time

*Asterisk means I have this in my collection

Note that the 20 cent regular clearly exists both inverted and upright (which I consider to be the invert). Regarding the official issue, I believe the inverted 1921 is also the more common stamp (which I have), but have not seen an upright 1921, unless that is what either Travis or Manfred are referring to in this blog.

Manfred

Greg,
I do have the 20c official with upright overprint in mint condition, but this is my only copy. I have 4 with inverted overprint unused and used, so I guess you are right about their relative scarcity.

Travis

I just picked up a mint copy of the 2 dollar invert.

mikwizzy

For my benefit - and maybe others! - how do I tell the difference between a CTO and a non-CTO cancel?

I have the 10c with a Monrovia cancel and the 50c also

Albert

On the 1921 issues most CTO dates fall in 1921, 1922. A few dates will be 1923, 1924, 1925. No dates have been reported in 1926, 1927. So any with a 1926 or 1927 date might be postally used.

On 209-213 most CTO are in 1923. Some will be in 1924, 1925, 1926. No dates are found with 1927. So stamps with 1927 might be postally used.

On 214-227, F30-35, O141-154 most CTO are in 1923, 1924,1925. 1926 is scarce. No dates are found with 1927. So stamps with 1927 might be postally used.

This came from a article by Henry Chlanda which was Vol 53, No 6 of The Collectors Club Philatelist Nov 1974, pages 337 to 348. Great article. I added some other details to the story.

Hope that helps

Albert

Travis

I have an update to the list. Here are a two mint regular issue inverts that I recently purchased.

Travis

Here are the officials that I picked up.

Bryant

Hi all.
Sorry that I am late to the game here. Greg, thanks for writing the article and promoting the Forum.

I have mint inverted 1921 for all ordinary values except for the 10c and 50c. This includes consideration for the 20c normally inverted. This corresponds to Greg's list.

I have mint inverted 1921 for all official values except for the 2c 5c 25c and $1. This includes consideration of the 5c normally inverted. So, only the 2c 5c and $1 official are unaccounted for.

BUT... I just discovered something interesting. I have a full set of official values with 1921 overprints, also overprinted "specimen". These specimens have the 5c inverted as discussed above, but also the 20c inverted!!! So, I think that the 20c official is also inverted normally.

I think having "specimen" examples is a good basis for determining normal versus inverted. Does someone have the ordinary 1921 overprints also overprinted "specimen" which shows the 20c 1921 inverted? I was just wondering how this was determined.

I also find it interesting that both 20c could be normally inverted.
Bryant

Bryant

Oh well, forget what I just said about the 20c Official... I have a few Official "specimen" overprints on stamps with inverted 1921... the 1c, 2c, 10c and 20c. I did not look at them all closely.

I do not have any knowledge or who overprinted these stamps "specimen". They are haphazardly done, and poorly done. No conclusions can be drawn from these specimen overprints.

Following are a couple examples.

Bryant

Travis

These look like the British Post Office specimens. I have the complete set of the 1921 regular issue overprinted with the same specimen overprint. My 20c has the inverted year as to be expected but the interesting thing is my $2 and $5 are also inverted. I will upload some scans tomorrow.

Travis

Travis

As mentioned in my previous post, here are my British Post Office specimens.

Manfred

The whole set of official "1921" BPO specimens incl. Bryant's copies is shown on my website. Marty sent me the scans in September 2012 before he sold them.